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Please, don’t pet service dogs

When you are out and about running your errands, you may see people in the stores walking with their dogs. When you do, please don’t pet these dogs. Chances are they are guide or service dogs. Most of the time the dog’s harness will have a warning on it to not pet, but if you are walking up from behind or from the side, you may not see the warning sign right away. Guide dogs are dogs that are owned by people who are partially or fully blind and need these dogs to be their eyes in the world. They are trained to ignore distractions, but must also be vigilant to steer their owners away from anything perceived as a danger. By petting or talking to the dog, you are putting the owner and the dog in possible danger. I have seen lots of times where people have talked to, petted, tried to feed, and tried to play with guide dogs. Not only does that irritate the dog’s owner, but it also takes the dog’s concentration away from his job.

Service dogs accompany their owners at all times, and they perform specific tasks for them. Some tasks may not be obvious. For example, a service dog whose job is to provide stability for their person may look like a dog that is just hanging out, waiting to be petted. Or, a service dog whose job it is to open and close doors, pick up items, or listen for sounds may look like a dog that is a pet until their specific service is needed. Know that they are “on duty” every second the harness is on and they should not be distracted. Although it is the polite and safe thing to do for every dog, you should always ask the owner of a guide or service dog if it is OK to pet their dog. Do not be offended if they say no. And know that these dogs do get “off duty” time where they are given affection and play just like any other dog.

Service dogs come in all shapes and sizes. Typically you will see Labrador Retrievers, Golden Retrievers, or German Shepherd dogs, used as service dogs, but there are increasingly many more breeds becoming service dogs. My favorite service dog is a Pit Bull mix named Captain Mikey (pictured above). He is officially my friend Amanda’s service dog, but his hip health may require him to retire before too many years. Because of his temperament and training, he will become a service dog for her son who has autism. You can see from the picture that these two already share a special bond. Captain Mikey is a calendar boy, too. He is Mr. March on the “Please Don’t Pet Me” 2012 calendar. This site has much more information on service dogs.

So if you are walking down the aisle at your local grocery store and see one of these magnificent animals, just smile and calmly walk by them. Compliment the owner on the beauty or actions of the dog, but please, don’t pet the dog.

Terry Meeks is a dog trainer, APDT Member an CGC Evaluator in Pinellas County, Florida.  Find Four on the Floor Dog Training at and on Facebook.

Author: doggywoof staff

115 Responses to “Please, don’t pet service dogs”

  1. I need dog toys for my German shepherd service dog. I was told Kong is the best.

  2. Tamara Jessup says:

    If you see someone with a dog where you know pets aren’t allowed, ALWAYS ASSUME IT’S A SERVICE DOG and act accordingly, whether it’s “dressed” (wearing a cape, harness, or vest whose markings or obvious function identify the dog as a service dog) and act accordingly. Conversely, if you see a dog that is annoying other patrons/customers, disrupting the smooth function of a business, or interfering with another person’s service dog, PLEASE report it to whomever is in charge. There is a veritable epidemic of people who either merely want to pass their pets off as service dogs or who don’t understand or appreciate the level of training a dog must demonstrate before its handler has any business claiming that it’s a service dog who are taking poorly trained, or even untrained, badly-behaved dogs into public places, destroying the goodwill people have come to feel towards service dog teams and harming legitimate working or training teams. Both are illegal.

  3. Maria says:

    I’m actually glad someone brought this up. Many people think that service dogs are just well trained pets and don’t realize that their owners rely on their constant assistance. It is frustrating to me when people try to play with service dogs even after they’re asked to stop. You can easily harm the owner by causing them to fall, causing the dog to become disoriented/distracted, preventing the owner his/her freedom to complete their shopping/meal/walk/etc. Their are even service dogs that detect seizures. Wouldn’t you feel awful if you distracted the dog and something happened? I know it’s tempting and if you feel like you have to give it a pet, ask the owner first. If they say no, complement them on a beautiful animal and walk away. Also, to the person who commented about people who pretend they have a service dog when they don’t, I’m shocked. I’ve never personally seen someone trying to sneak a non-service animal into a place pets weren’t allowed but it does bring up a valid concern.

  4. Christa says:

    I am so glad to see this article. I am a volunteer trainer here in the Atlanta area and get so tired of people coming up to pet the dog (a lot of times without asking). Thanks for the article. I posted it on my facebook to remind my friends.

  5. Carol says:

    Ive also never seen anyone pretending their dog was a service dog.

  6. Sophia says:

    I am so glad to see Pit Bulls becoming service dogs. I am going to be a service dog for my mom. She is disabled by Fibromyalgia and needs me to help her do a lot of things around the house, and when we are out and about. I love people and all animals. But alot of people have given my breed a bum rap. I may be a big girl but I think I’m a lap dog. Woof Wooof, Don’t tell anyone I’m not a lap dog OK. Thanks you, Wooff woof woof :)

  7. Marcella says:

    Wonderful little article. I’m part of the PDPM community and have my psychiatric service dog that helps me. Unfortunately since I am not blind, deaf, or confined to a wheelchair, many people tell me I am not disabled and ask me why I have a dog. They give strange stares, often people don’t understand, and many times they pet without asking. It’s very irritating and distracting to my girl’s work. :/

  8. Annetta says:

    I am so glad to learn you, a beauful pit bull, are being so helpful and supportive to your Mom while showing the public that your breed should not prevent you from becoming a trained service dog. All animals, like all people, are individuals and should not be “profiled” but accepted for their behavior and demeanor. Congratulations on your new job, and hopefully your Mom will tell you that you have a big fan in Memphis, TN!

  9. Amanda says:

    That is my sweet boy Mike, he is the light of our lives and without him, I would have been lost. I am so thankful to have been able to rescue him and have the help and support of such amazing trainers, such as Terry Meeks in his training. He has become so much more than we ever thought he would be. Mike has now completely transitioned to be my son’s full time Autism Service Dog and is beyond amazing with him. They share such a great bond and he truly makes my son’s life so much easier, along with keeping him safe and making sure that he is always ok. Captain Mike has been a God send since we adopted him :)

  10. patienthand says:

    I have seen people with “fake” service dogs, and idiots who have asked me to get a vest for their pet so they can take it places. I just got my second service dog a couple of weeks ago, and we are still gelling as a team. We basically got mugged by a well meaning man in the produce ,market today, he just would NOT leave us alone or keep his hands off my dog. It is so frustrating when people dont listen to a polite, please dont pet, she is working right now. But, I am seeing more and more that parents are telling their young children, no honey you cant pet that dog, its a helper dog, or service dog. I ALWAYS tell the parent thank you. One of the toughest places to stay firm with dont pet is at church. I am thrilled my church supports us and allows the dog in, but its SO hard to keep sayiing… dont pet =dont pet. I try to duck out a side door when I can and avoid the crowds

    • Sue says:

      I have the same problem! My SD is a petite Saint Bernard. I use her for mobility. Can you imagine the on slot of people rushing down an aisle to pet the dog head on. I tell them “no” bu they look at me and say I am sorry I just can’t resist. I found this group while searching for some kind of patch or badge that would be big enough and bright enough for people to see. I saw a lady with a collie in a harness with raised handle. Hanging from the handle was a huge sign. I am working. Do not touch me. I asked her where she got it. She said someone made it. She said people literally had turned her collie around so they could hug it. Maybe my breed choice was not the best but my Lucy does the work for me.

  11. Martha Linn says:

    I have seen quite a few people who try to pass their dog off as a service dog, even if it is just a companion to a handicapped person. While I feel for these people (who wouldn’t want your companion with you at all times!), there is a difference. There was an incident in the town where I live where a woman in a wheelchair with her pet wanted to bring him to a festival, even though there was a no pets policy. She got hysterical and threatened to sue. I calmly told her to bring me the dog’s certification and he could come in. She said, “handicapped people don’t need to have certified service dogs, they can just take their dogs with them everywhere”. I don’t think so.

  12. Daisy Lewis says:

    Martha Linn,

    You can’t ask for a service animals certification under Federal Law. As of March 2011 the ADA/DOJ updated their laws, you may only ask two questions: 1) Is that a service animal? 2) What services does he/she provide? If they answer these questions correctly, of course that would be a yes and a valid health issue for needing a service animal, you have to let them in. The only way to ask them to leave is if they don’t answer the questions right, and if the “service animal” is disruptive, agressive, not housebroken. Then you must offer a comperable service at a later date, continue without the “service animal, or if you wanted, a refund. Otherwise, they can file a complaint with the ADA/DOJ and if the find that they havea valid case the DOJ can fine you & your group (whoever is having the party). Just an FYI

  13. Robin says:

    I loved this article! I am in the process of training my own service dog (he is 11 months as of yesterday) and have to constantly ask people not to pet him. I have also had a problem with people who think my dog is a fake service dog since I do not have a obvious disability (tunnel vision and night blindness). There is a huge problem with people passing dogs off as service dogs when they have no training and there is no need. I spoke with a woman who tried to convince me that her chihuahua was a service dog for her back pain. I see people in the store with tiny dogs and when asked all they have to say is that it is a service dog and what service it provides. There needs to be some way to enforce who actually needs a service dog and there should be a way to identify them because it has gotten out of hand and I for one am tired of being asked if I’m “one of those people who just wants to bring her pet with her everywhere.”

  14. pablo says:

    I just wanted to point out that the default paw-print avatar used in the feedback is actually feline and not from the canine family. FYI

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  16. Alyssa says:

    I am at present training my own service dog, she is an english staffordshire bull terrior, she does a combination of tasks as my condition (primary condition anyway) has a string of others which result from it. I am blind, have fluctuating hormone levels which cause things such as very poor balance and high anxiety and deppression which follows it… to ice that rich cake, last year I was diagnosed with ptsd after an incident which nearly claimed my life 18 months ago. Ninna is one of the first stafs to be trained here in qld australia, but I am really keen to hear more about captain mike and your son’s progress together as being blind I’m more familiar with labs as guide/service dogs than any other breed… I am part of an assistance dog handlers’ group here, and we do have a few chiwawas and smaller terriors on our program, so I tend not to be judgemental of breed, chis can retrieve dropped items and alurt to seisures just as readily as a larger breed, they just can’t and shouldn’t do counterbalance and mobility support work.

    One question, what bully quirks did Captain mike display throughout his training, and how did you get past them? One of Ninna’s is that she’s a talker (it’s her main one) but we do use it for alurts, and to let me know if something different is happening as I can become very disauriented…. it’s taken some time to break her of the constant talking habbit, but we feel closer than ever to that goal now!

  17. Terry Meeks says:

    Alyssa – Thanks for the comments and congratulations on your success with Ninna. Captain Mike worked really great with his mini handler, but due to his own hip issues is now enjoying his pet status. I know that a couple of the issues when training him for service dog status was his bully quirk of sometimes being distracted by other dogs – not all, but some. He was very concentrated with “on duty”, but when “off duty”, he was way too interested in other dogs – and wanting to get to them to instigate play. And with almost all bullies, they are very in tune to people wanting to pay attention to them, so when people did approach without permission, he would turn into a waggy tail. Both of those issues were helped with focus exercises. Keep up the good work with you assistance dog handlers group.

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  21. Audrey Rose says:

    Well if u go to walmart all these winter visitors are bringing in there dogs and they lie about them being service, its ovious they arent services dogs when they have them sitting in the cart. Walmart employees are only required to ask them if its a service dog thats it and ofcourse these people say yes!!!

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  23. Morgan says:

    I have a service dog i trained myself with the help of a trainer and I had ppl trying to pet her all the time, so i looked online and found a red STOP sign tht says working STOP please do not pet and a service dog access required because i too have an invisible disability and am looked at and asked questions u dont look disabled and stuff she does medical alert and helps with ptsd because store ppl think only guide dogs are allowed until they see tht patch and i have the name of my city police dept. Lt and they shut down real quick and say ok so shes a real service dog and I say yes, And just the other day i was walking out of Piknsave and a lady walking in was like i got mine in my bag and it started barking and stuff at my service dog so ik what ppl r talking about!!!

  24. Caralyn Betts says:

    I found on “Anythings Pawsable”
    FACTS: They are different info depending of your situation.
    The one I use-
    My handler’s safety rest in my paws. So please Don’t talk,point.touch, bark, or couch down at me or otherwise distract me. If I’m distracted & not paying attention to my job, my handler can get hurt!
    So I hand them to people. I have a great deal of people either say “I had no idea” or one time a grandmother thanked me. B/C she really didn’t know how to explain why they couldn’t pet the doggie. I always say “He”s helping his mom & he needs to focus” “Now I can tell them in a simple manner for any age to understand.” I don’t go out of my way to give info out, but I do give to people & say “Just so you know why….” & keep going” It how I deal w/ it, give info card & keep going.

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  28. Barbs says:

    I had a SD a few years ago RIP, and Precious knew to laly on my shoulder if I fainted. I had her as a no pet, This one time, when I awoke, she was not there [walmart] and I called her name 3 ways. Finally I saw her still I was lying down, 4 aisles over. My friend, jumped and saw her being straddled by a woman, head pulled back and hand over her mouth! My girlfriend saved Precious, but when I told Walmart about ‘it’s YOUR dog you deal with it!’ Now with my new Zamboni, a neighbor keeps calling her, gives her numbies and just wants to pet her, like she tried to with Precious. She turned me in once and now threatens yet again! She just doesn’t get it at all! Suggestions anyone?
    I love my Service Dogs, they are so helpful for me!

    • Barbs says:

      I can’t shake her and she will not listen. All these laws and no one can do anything to stop this woman from petting my Zamboni, I finally had to do the humane thing and Re Home her. This woman contiunally told her to run, we are bad owners and guess what! I have two doctors who are ordering me to get another Service Dog, I am stuck! Anyone have any suggestions as to whet to do? She will not listen. What I would like to do I can’t mentions. Anyone have experieince in this issue! I asm down to walking 1/2 block and it took me 4 years to get up ;to 10 blocks Now She has injured my back! Just kill me!

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  31. Barbs says:

    Would you believe kids are taught about Service Dogs in school about the 4th grade. They know this and will not for the most part WILL NOT pet them without asking. A mother told the daughter to go ahead and pet the ‘doggy’ but the daughter would not ‘I can’t mommy, she is a vested Service Dog’ and didn’t but did talk to my Service Dog nicely with politeness and respect!
    Adults do not get it even when explained why!
    I like this site, this is my first time visiting it! THANKS!

  32. Barbs says:

    i WAS ASKED BY dENNY’S cORPORATE AND fRANCISE to instruct them with dogs. There were too many dogs “its is a Service Dog!’ but allowed to runn all over freeely, eat off of the owners plate and play with other dogs.
    Presently I am training Zamboni. My intention was to start earlier, but she had cysts real bad 4-7 months known to us. Now she IS READY! Still all puppy at 10 months, but growing into this new role. I told her I needed to lean on herm to get up from the floor. She is a retriever and retrieving everyinging, and putting hearing aids at my feet! Still haven’t figured where she got my husbands old ones!!! More training in a few minutes!

  33. Barbs says:

    I was told it is a punishable by law offense to stop or impeed a Service Dog from doing their duty. I cannot find it further for Washington. Anytone know where to get this info?

  34. Barbs says:

    You are right, they can ONLY ASK those two questions and NOTHING MORE!

  35. Barbs says:

    Dogs can diagnosis in the respect they know!. Precious, RIP, kept laying on my feet, legs, and other ways of physical contact. I was going nuts literally. I was going to take her to the Vet but they were off that say. The next day,I had a pdoc appt and “took her with me, he knew! That day My Baby Girl was right and the doc ordered 24/7/365! I was diagnoised with Hypomania for the first time. How did she know. I later found out, I never trained her, SHE KNEW INTUTIVEWLY and was worth $3000 because of this! I was very blessed with this Girl! Thank God!

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  43. Barbs says:

    Yeah, me too. On my 2nd one now also 11 months. DOGS ARE MAGNENTS FOR PEOPLES HANDS! Good news, 4th graders at least in Washington are taught NOT TO PET SD before asking! Now to train the adults! I used to use Precious RIP to teach people! Forget it they don’t want to learn! They want only to pet, or memories of theirs, who knows. NO ONE PETS MY ZAMBONI now under any circumstances! There is a Federal law but I cannot find further info. SD are protected. You CAN EVEN DEDUCT THEIR FOOOD< CARE ETC ON THE IRS!

  44. Barbs says:

    I have seen “Service Dogs’ who at restraunts are alowed by their owners to eat from their plats, bark, run wildly all over and jumping on other patrons! This is not a Service Dog who lays next to you, until you need her next. I was called in to help a restraunt, since they always saw my RIP Precious laying next to me until I needed he, or she senced it! Service Dogs to me are a sembiotic relaltionship, sensing when things are different. Mine told me when My Diabetes was a miss, when my Bipolar hit a new stage and I was unarare of it. My new one, Zamboni is learning as she lays on my feet now, she senced a LB pain before it came and blocked my further walking. She can HOLD and I can lean on her to get up! SD do not run wild in an estabolishment, eating from plates! When asked, have your ID with you, Waknart gerem ID’s vested SD, but now have a problem with small dogs in purses jummping out etc! These are not service dog just cute barkers!

  45. Barbs says:

    Don’t know if it is for me but it fits. But in a restraunt? Car yes!

  46. Barbs says:

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  47. Barbs says:

    I hqad one guy ask me SD questions. When I asked him his disability he replied, “I jus want to keep my dog with me all the time is all!’

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  49. Barbs says:

    Well, the neighbor who insists on petting my two Service Dogs [past and present, had her day! She called Zamboni over, and then had it out with me in front of the Christian lady’s house. Furious, IT IS MY DOG not yours! She has x2 Pomeranians who bark constantly! I called ASPCA she was like a kitten! Next time it is the Police! I am soo sweet, too long! ASPCA wondered why it took me so long to call, if obviously she is that bad.


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    • Barbs says:

      I would love to get the word out why you cannot touch them. Especially with my year old Golden Puppy and Precious RIP. I have had two back surgeries, and when people come up…I go down kissing the floor! I passed out d/t side effects of meds, and she was taken from me 4 aisles over, sat on, forcefully had her head pulled back and mouth clamped shut. When I called Walmart on this, ‘you should take care of your own service dog! NO ONE touches my dog, at stores, resturants etc. Yeah I am how? A neighbor tho told, kept calling her, numbies etc, I go down. Finally I called ASPCA! Now it all my fault she got into trouble! Barbs Fortin and Zamboni
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    • Barbs says:

      I have Zamboni, a year old Golden Retriever, and even with my last one Precious RIP both are somehow magnets to kids and adults. Most kids here learn at 4th grade about Service Dogs and don’t touch. The adults however are the worst! I have to pull my SD out of harms way. I have had her taken when I passed out in Walmart, pet, hug, ask may I? When i say no she is a service dog they get indegnant as though I am taking something from them! THEY act like kids with ‘doggy woggy’, and so on! They just don’t listen. I used to trty and educate the, now this is MY dog! A neighbor kept calling mine puuppy, and I fell and many other times, giving her treets [to all dogs] I just love all dogs. I have told her numerious times. Finally 2 months ago, I called the ASPCA. Attorney General wrote and told me it was a miss-demeaner’.

  52. Noah Davidson says:

    This is a very important, but very under-taught, lesson now days. My house mate and I both have service dogs that accompany us everywhere. My friend is visually impaired and I have PTSD (an anxiety disorder). Both of our dogs, mine is a dorky Husky named Jaro and hers is a majestic German Shepard called Molly, draw a good amount of attention when we walk down the street.
    We have nearly been kicked out of restaurants so many times it isn’t even funny. Most often with the lines ‘one guide dog is believable, but two?’ and ‘sure, she’s blind, but what’s your problem?’.

    • Barbs says:

      Have your ID card tucked IN attached to or in pull out cord, of their vest or harness and on you as well! I was with a friend a while back and we also got the same look! ‘No, this is hers…. and this is my….!’ Check your states rules for ID’s. I know this will always happpens but WE AS OWNERS need to educate ourselves as well as others one by one! I find little problems with the kids, since they are taught in 4th grade about SD. HOWEVER, it is the adults that grab for, grope and pet DESPITE being told! My most shocking one was, ‘IT”S A DOGGY WOGGY!’ Jaro is a doll and Molty I can literally picture! We had an almost albino German Shepard but her eyes weren’t pink! Fanny was the usual size and color for a Mama. HOWEVER, Admiral was a tad bit bigger at a whopping 120lb male jet black! Our GOLDIE was a girl taking after her Papa weighing in at 100lb! Yup, Goldie was a runt having brought her back to life! The Police saw me training her one day and wanted her badly! No she is a family dog Mom said!
      It is nice I am not the only one out there having difficulty with the uneducated public! If one continues to harass, pet, take or in any way interfeers with their SD DUTIES, call the police etc. Washington State you can do this and get ahold of the Attorney Genersl’s office-there is a misdemeer charge! Try educating them first!
      I finally called the ASPCA on a neighbor that kept calling my Golden Retriever away from me and I fell! Zamboni helps me balalnce and if I fall She is there for me to lean on to get up. She also notified me if my Bipolar is off balance! Where would I be without my Zamboni, or yours, or anyones SD~we depend on them so much to protect us, lift us up and notice a change. Give a Scratch to Jaro and Malty for me! Keep me informed of your journies!

      • Barbara says:

        I finally had to re home Zamboni recently, because the lady kept calling , gave treats and petted her. I was walking with her and I have been so week, I kept falling. I told her and-well now you know how much she listened! I now need to get help she she won’t do it again when I get a new service dog. I am back to a walker or a cane.

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    • Barbara says:

      We were in walmart and saw a woman parading a Pomeranian. I asked her if her dog was a Service Dog. She ducked and Ran ! Guess not!

      Also, I have a neighter with two pomeraians who bark alot, She continually called my Service dog tho told not to imphatically. She called her, gave her treats and petted her. Each time I fell and could not get up. I finally had to rehome Zamboni because the lady wouldn’t listen and for Zamboni’s safety. Service Dogs are for service nd NOT for someone’s jolly to ped, ets.I ‘I just love all dogs and to pet them.

  54. Jillian Newcastle says:

    Service dogs should never be smacked. This Barbs character has been seen on numerous occasions smacking her service dog, at 12 weeks old and beyond! The dog cowers when she raises her hand! NO ONE CALLS HER DOG OVER!!! Her dog is hungry for KINDNESS! Her dog leaves her whenever she sees other people. This Barbs character is lying. Period.

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    • Show Dogs says:

      There are Mutts, Working dogs, Dogs, show dogs and agility dogs. A dog is not just a dog. they are trained for a very specific reason, breed for and used for. The word here is RESPECT for the owner of each class of dog, and the dog.

  56. Abba says:

    I am sure I* saw a Fake service Dog in Walmart. It was a Pom. When I asked the gal said it was a SD and literally Ran down the aisle. That was a cleue when it began to bark. I could find no one to let them know! Is this the right protacal? Please inform me.

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    • Barbs says:

      I have written about my nneighbor who kept taking my Service Dog from me. I was walking up to a mile, a real accomplishment for me, now since I fell so many times when she called my dog, I injured yet another part of my back, I have already had two surgeries, the last being ’12. The Neuro and I are trying other alternatives which are not pleasant.. My Service Dog, a hard decision, no one should ever have to make. Back to my cane and walker and I can only walk 1 single block if lucky. Seems she got her way, ‘I just love all dogs’ too bad she doesn’t respect the same Service Dogs. I could get no help at all, sugesstions. My Neuro and Ppdoc said I need a Service Dog and soon, which with this woman facing your dog, avoidence does nothing!

    • Barbs says:

      We have many dogs on our street. When the Dog owner notices the dog comming towards me, I ALWAYS ask May I
      pet her/she? Before the dog chooses me. Usually yes but they appreciate being asked.
      Service dogs, Working Dogs Guide Dogs and the like are for the service ONLY of the owner and are NOT to be touched unless asked first and a “YES” answered. Many Service Dogs do a service others do not see, Mobiity or steady the person, Notifying the owner of a change in action or mood, or like Diabetics. If interrupted their owner suffers for it. I had a person in the store who took my Service Dog when I passed out from medications. The Dog knew what to do but being sat on she couldn’t get up to help me. Dogs are NOT a magnet, a doggie woggie, to be pet or treated as your own private dog, They are Service, Working and Guide Dogs. I found out the hard way!

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  61. Michael C says:

    Thanks for this article. I don’t see guide dogs much at all, but the other day, while waiting for a subway in a busy downtown area, I saw a guy (who appeared to be visually impaired) with a beautiful black dog (looked like a Black Lab, but I am no expert). I was curious at what guard dogs do exactly (I know they help owners avoid obstacles and such but I wanted more details, which is why I did some Googling and found this article.

    I was tempted to approach the owner and dog to compliment the dog, but thought better of it, thinking that 1) I don’t know the appropriate ettiquete for dealing with on duty guide dogs; and 2) dealing with a crowded subway would seem like exactly the time when the dog should be most prepared and useful to the owner.

    So i just observed the dog from a distance and went home and found this article.

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